tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12723103.post112788764788916846..comments2023-05-27T03:17:19.681-07:00Comments on PyroManiac: Still more from the e-mail out-boxPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12723103.post-1127971374122263192005-09-28T22:22:00.000-07:002005-09-28T22:22:00.000-07:00"Even if we listen to Pat Boone..."You mean this P...<I>"Even if we listen to Pat Boone..."</I><BR/><BR/>You mean <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000005KOE/qid=1127971228/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-5541487-1226552?v=glance&s=music&n=507846" REL="nofollow">this Pat Boone</A>?Away From The Brinkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01437744242086239050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12723103.post-1127965470664055682005-09-28T20:44:00.000-07:002005-09-28T20:44:00.000-07:00I guess Bro. Phil just can't visualize St. Paul de...I guess Bro. Phil just can't visualize St. Paul decked out as Dracula, sipping a glass of human blood, to relate to the Goth culture. Such poverty of imagination! :-)stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12723103.post-1127959514835270102005-09-28T19:05:00.000-07:002005-09-28T19:05:00.000-07:00Your cello comment is priceless.Your cello comment is priceless.geoffrobinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14949411893531888555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12723103.post-1127959185340093382005-09-28T18:59:00.000-07:002005-09-28T18:59:00.000-07:00I think that there is something to be said about t...I think that there is something to be said about the importance of interacting with elements of modern culture. Paul, after all, knew all about that altar to the unknown God when he preached in Athens in Acts 17.<BR/><BR/>I certainly have a music and DVD collection that would make some Christians wonder about me. The idea is, however, that in these artistic representations of mankind (in all its glorious sinfulness), can be discovered ways of thinking and behaving - attitudes towards God and so on.<BR/><BR/>But the real reason I enjoy my music and films is because I have an arty side to me that appreciates symbolic representations and emotional catharsis - not because I want to evangelise those who watch/listen to similar stuff.<BR/><BR/>Christianity can never be "cool". We don't need to show the world that Christians can have fun too.<BR/><BR/>But what the world does respond to is sincerely held beliefs lived out publically and privately. The media and the masses will always be against us, but if we speak and live our faith with unbelievers, they will notice.<BR/><BR/>Even if we listen to Pat Boone.Neil Cameron (One Salient Oversight)https://www.blogger.com/profile/03143948543305522865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12723103.post-1127947019621728952005-09-28T15:36:00.000-07:002005-09-28T15:36:00.000-07:00You are now a multi-media super star. Todd Friel,...You are now a multi-media super star. Todd Friel, drive home host on Christian Radio 980AM KKMS (Minneapolis/St. Paul) picked up on your post today and discussed it on air. He cited you as the source for the thought and read little snippets and took calls in comments. For the most part, the callers would take your assessment and agree. Good stuff as always!<BR/><BR/>Big Chris<BR/><A HREF="http://mrclm.blogspot.com" REL="nofollow">Because I said so</A> blog<BR/>http://mrclm.blogspot.comChris Meirosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05717903860701408008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12723103.post-1127946813749449462005-09-28T15:33:00.000-07:002005-09-28T15:33:00.000-07:00Now that's more like it. Phil this is how you shou...Now that's more like it. Phil this is how you should have responded to the first email yesterday. Both of these emails are symptomatic of the same problem: the misuse of Paul's example to be all things to all people. A better picture of Paul's method is to see him on Mars hill. He looks around for a point of contact, a jumping off point, and begins "I notice you are very religious..." The best way to effect the world around you is to be yourself, not a wannabe or a looser. Learn to express yourself verbally, know what you believe, and then look for opportunities to make a point of contact at the level of the target audience.Wayne Hatcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07358232590775009166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12723103.post-1127942775108489682005-09-28T14:26:00.000-07:002005-09-28T14:26:00.000-07:00"The truth is that He became their friend without ...<I>"The truth is that He became their friend without adopting their values. That's the example we should strive to follow, not the example of worldly culture itself."</I><BR/><BR/>Yes! Phil, you've keenly peered through the fog that surrounds this issue. Jesus was remarkably able to fellowship with "sinners" and social rejects yet remain his message, which challenged them to live beyond where they were at. The Pharisees weren't the only ones he condemned.<BR/><BR/>Likewise Paul was "all things to all men," but that doesn't mean he made his life and ministry more about being seen as "one of us" than about the message of the Gospel.<BR/><BR/>That message remains scandalous. The moment that a conversion to Jesus doesn't involve a fundamental change of what sort of people we are, and the things we do and say, is the moment we know that we've castrated the Gospel.<BR/><BR/>"All things to all men" must be accompanied by the kicker: "in order to save some." "Jesus loves you" must be followed by "and he is calling you to live beyond yourself, as the person he died for you to be."Darrenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14982514539447292224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12723103.post-1127934309968593722005-09-28T12:05:00.000-07:002005-09-28T12:05:00.000-07:00r reeves wrote, Ironically, the greatest treatment...r reeves wrote, <I>Ironically, the greatest treatment of this mindset came in cartoon form in a King of the Hill episode. As Hank told the hip youth minister, "You're not making Christianity better; you're making rock and roll worse." The last 5 minutes of that episode should be required viewing for evangelicals.</I><BR/><BR/>I saw that episode and wished it were possible to frame it. It was funny but exactly true. Looks like somebody who writes for KotH was raised/educated in a pretty solid church.Jerihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14234147722462126392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12723103.post-1127933045905609532005-09-28T11:44:00.000-07:002005-09-28T11:44:00.000-07:00I have a problem with anything that makes the Chri...<I>I have a problem with anything that makes the Christian identity secondary. No one ever says, "This is solid, biblical Christian music that happens to have a punk flavor." The emphasis is always on the fact that it's "metal" or "industrial" or "punk." Punk first, Christian second. The primary identity of the music is that it's punk. THEN it's Christian</I>.<BR/><BR/>It's true that no one ever says that, but if you ask, the reason most often given why christian x (x=metal, punk, etc) sucks is that the band puts the christian thing first and the music thing second. That is, it's just an evangelistic tool. <BR/><BR/>They have a point. Contemporary Christian music of any kind tends towards shallow expressions of religious fealty. "Jesus Loves Me" puts most of it to shame in terms of artistic merit. Musically inclined Christians should focus less on injecting the words Jesus, God, love, adore, holy, and so forth into their music and instead try to weave Christian themes into it less superficially.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05158836300021988890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12723103.post-1127932605998792982005-09-28T11:36:00.000-07:002005-09-28T11:36:00.000-07:00Speaking of tattoos, I recently saw a guy at an am...Speaking of tattoos, I recently saw a guy at an amusement park with a tattoo of Jesus.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05158836300021988890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12723103.post-1127929786563044452005-09-28T10:49:00.000-07:002005-09-28T10:49:00.000-07:00Ironically, the greatest treatment of this mindset...Ironically, the greatest treatment of this mindset came in cartoon form in a King of the Hill episode. As Hank told the hip youth minister, "You're not making Christianity better; you're making rock and roll worse." The last 5 minutes of that episode should be required viewing for evangelicals.Russhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17324732962138305429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12723103.post-1127924945462433442005-09-28T09:29:00.000-07:002005-09-28T09:29:00.000-07:00Gunner: "You're challenging Christians who have a ...<B>Gunner:</B> <I>"You're challenging Christians who have a bright lamp (holiness) but who are hiding it under a basket. And you're reacting by setting your light on a nice, high lampstand, and then dimming it with worldly identities."</I><BR/><BR/>Well said.<BR/><BR/>Also, <B>Yankeerev</B> reminded me of something I meant to add but forgot: I agree that our message to the pierced-and-punk'd generation shouldn't be about the way they <I>look.</I> I wouldn't want the skaters in my neighborhood to think I automatically despise them because their baggy shorts bug me.<BR/><BR/>How unbelievers look and act is not my concern here. As Christians, we ought to love our neighbors and do good to them regardless of their appearance—even if they look like <A HREF="http://www.spurgeon.org/images/pyromaniac/300.jpg" REL="nofollow">this lady,</A> <A HREF="http://www.spurgeon.org/images/pyromaniac/mom.jpg" REL="nofollow">this lady,</A> or <A HREF="http://www.spurgeon.org/images/pyromaniac/00013.jpg" REL="nofollow">this lady.</A><BR/><BR/>I also don't think Christians need to be embarrassed and shouldn't be marginalized if they bring into the Christian life whatever scars they got from living in the world—whether it be tattoos and piercings, a prison record, or the humiliation of some scandalous sin.<BR/><BR/>But I think it's wrong, and sends the wrong message, if we magnify those scars or try to parlay them into sme kind of instant credibility that actually communicates to the world that we think the scars of sin are "cool."<BR/><BR/>And I especially object to the notion that it's good for Christians to deliberately acquire the scars of worldliness because that's the key to some kind of misguided "evangelistic" strategy.Phil Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12723103.post-1127923507680197992005-09-28T09:05:00.000-07:002005-09-28T09:05:00.000-07:00Uh, oh...I can hear the distant rythmic drums of P...Uh, oh...I can hear the distant rythmic drums of Pecadillo playing Phil's Chicken Dance music in the distance as I begin to chime in with: Great post, Phil. <BR/><BR/>Hmm, I too suddenly have this urge to start high fiving....Brad Hustonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13034379100231079992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12723103.post-1127922308396283182005-09-28T08:45:00.000-07:002005-09-28T08:45:00.000-07:00cf. the TELIP tattoo.cf. the TELIP tattoo.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12723103.post-1127922153926590902005-09-28T08:42:00.000-07:002005-09-28T08:42:00.000-07:00Wait! Does this mean that I can quit wearing Hugg...Wait! Does this mean that I can quit wearing Huggies and sucking on my nook-nook, and still keep my ministry in the nursery on Sunday morning?! Great!Matthew Hooverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17871847706752420315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12723103.post-1127921548206371052005-09-28T08:32:00.000-07:002005-09-28T08:32:00.000-07:00Phil,The few piercings that I have are scars from ...Phil,<BR/><BR/>The few piercings that I have are scars from my "punk" lifestyle during the late 70's. No more combat boots - Doc Martins were the rage then too -- no more straps between the legs, or torn t-shirts -- unless, of course I have just finished wrestling with my boys in the living room - no more head banging or pogo dancing... No, I was dead and am now alive in Christ. I have no desire to go back to a lifestyle that is sprinkled with christian lingo but has all the trimmings of the death and darkness that I was in. Yet, I have been back -- earingless, strapless, bootless, and pogoless. In stead I went back as the new creature in Christ that I am fully trusting in His grace, not my clothing. The Gospel was shared clearly with love and graciousness, the seed planted and God will do as He pleases.Yankeerevhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04011567664742603211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12723103.post-1127919374881009922005-09-28T07:56:00.000-07:002005-09-28T07:56:00.000-07:00Just wondering when the Mormons or JW's will pick ...Just wondering when the Mormons or JW's will pick up on being "relevant"? Imagine the "missionary boys" trading in their mountain bikes for Hogs.Bewildered Bereanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03926067101259683072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12723103.post-1127918414724043962005-09-28T07:40:00.000-07:002005-09-28T07:40:00.000-07:00i have a growing issue with the attitude that in o...i have a growing issue with the attitude that in order to reach people not like us we have to become something we're not. while i respect the deep motives of trying to share the gospel in a way that we receive a hearing with people who might otherwise not listen, i think that there's a deeper problem with that sentiment. <BR/><BR/>for example, i think of the formerly popular notion of a 'skateboarding ministry.' as i see it, there are two ways to have such a 'ministry.' either you can have a heart for these people to the point that you build a skatepark in your church parking lot, learn to dress and talk like a skateboarder, and maybe even learn a few tricks (double-entendre?) so that you fit in - or - or you can enjoy skateboarding already and life out your faith in front of other skateboarders. <BR/><BR/>i prefer the second thought...dan sporshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16110849155999895380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12723103.post-1127915669162910702005-09-28T06:54:00.000-07:002005-09-28T06:54:00.000-07:00Don't worry, Phil. He'll go to college, get an MB...Don't worry, Phil. He'll go to college, get an MBA, and then "evangelize" the corporate world by blending in with them, too! With any luck (given that he probably does not have a healthy view of God's sovereignty, that's all he could ascribe it to), everyone will notice that <I>his</I> cubicle has a cross and a calendar with Psalms quotations on the wall. Then, with a little <I>more</I> luck, maybe Gordon from Accounting will make the first move and ask why he likes all that "Jesus stuff." Then, oh boy, he can finally say what he's been dying to find the opportunity to say: "Jesus was the greatest leader in history, and if you let him be CEO of your life, you'll end up at Corporate Headquarters when you die!"Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17590347483105341197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12723103.post-1127915108306477512005-09-28T06:45:00.000-07:002005-09-28T06:45:00.000-07:00Amen and amen.It is getting plain silly out there....Amen and amen.<BR/>It is getting plain silly out there. God's primary attribute is holiness...not cool.<BR/><BR/>I was just reading last night that He is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords--and dwells in unapproachable light.<BR/><BR/>Jesus is not a geek who needs a makeover to be hip.<BR/><BR/>JRush<BR/>An Evangelical ClodJohn R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00494719223133966785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12723103.post-1127914989157067452005-09-28T06:43:00.000-07:002005-09-28T06:43:00.000-07:00A tattoo, in a very limited sense, is like a marri...A tattoo, in a very limited sense, is like a marriage. If you get one while you are an unbeliever, and subsequently become a believer, you are still stuck with it. (End analogy).<BR/><BR/>Given that limited analogy, if someone becomes a Christian, and they have a tattoo and various piercings, they are pretty much stuck with that tattoo, and could probably jettison the piercings, and be left with the scars. In that case, reaching out to those whom you "understand" in a culture you were once (past tense) a part of, is, to some extent, a good idea, if you are called to do such. I don't have a problem with that at all. As long as there is no compromise, and a definate "set-apartness" between that person and the crowd they are trying to reach.<BR/><BR/>Phil's point, on the other hand, is right on, to the extent that a person shouldn't use evangelism as an excuse to remain involved in and GET tattoos and piercings in order to fit in.<BR/><BR/>Another great example is whether should we commit felonies so that we can go to prison to witness to prisoners? If you are already in prison, and become a believer, then have at it. Otherwise, you have to go in through the "front door."puritanicoalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01037018607747983203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12723103.post-1127912542541591672005-09-28T06:02:00.000-07:002005-09-28T06:02:00.000-07:00They say that imitation is the highest form of fla...They say that imitation is the highest form of flattery. <BR/><BR/>We see a style that we admire - and being carnal we desire to be admired in a similar way. To achieve this admiration we conform ourselves in varying degrees to that image we so admired. In displaying to the world the simultude of that image, we expect or imagine we shall thereby inherit a similar admiration from others.<BR/><BR/>Or said yet another way - we desire admiration from the world, and we are not above conforming to the world in order to receive it.<BR/><BR/>So when we hear of a brother or sister who fits this description we assume they are blind to it themselves - especially when we see that they have justified this carnal compromise as a form of piety.<BR/><BR/>Because it is so common, and because postmodernism has injected "tolerance" into mainstream christianity (disguising it as a Christian virtue) many believers are aghast when someone points out that the emperor has no clothes.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06734845463331170748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12723103.post-1127911188393187252005-09-28T05:39:00.000-07:002005-09-28T05:39:00.000-07:00I don't get "/* .I don't get <B> "/* </B>.jchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17018982835839534854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12723103.post-1127911079245600082005-09-28T05:37:00.000-07:002005-09-28T05:37:00.000-07:00A little while ago, on a 'Christian youth' telly p...A little while ago, on a 'Christian youth' telly programme, a young man who was part of an aspiring christian heavy metal band said that it was important to listen to Marilyn Mansons music, because how could you possibly get on tour with him to reach him otherwise?<BR/><BR/> I didn't follow that logic either.Kayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14873728356115837593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12723103.post-1127909514565580382005-09-28T05:11:00.000-07:002005-09-28T05:11:00.000-07:00Your email buddy reminds me of half a proverb, i.e...Your email buddy reminds me of half a proverb, i.e., that foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child. For some of us, being a "child" stretched into our 20s. <BR/><BR/>The rest of the proverb, of course, says that the rod of correction removes the foolishness. Maybe this person's parents won't discipline him/her, but God will. Those of us who insisted on learning the hard way know all about that, don't we?<BR/><BR/>When someone wants wisdom, they don't turn to young people. There's a reason for that. So, let them be stupid and foolish if they refuse to listen. Hopefully the lesson will be learned.Michael Russellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01753474161462765718noreply@blogger.com